Antibody test result

[anon06]

Thanks
Your reply is interesting, of course it will never give me the ultimate answer, but will give you a rough starting point to go hence forth.
In reading this initially my instincts tell me to get full blood count (paying close attention to neutrophils and white cells) as a back up insurance to the test.
I will re-read your reply and get back to you in more detail & look forward to hearing from you
@CaroleCW

[CaroleCW]

Yes I also track how my WBC and neutrophils are doing generally (as they have only reached the bottom end of the normal range 2 years after my treatment finished), so they too are a good “marker” of how my immune system is doing generally and whether I am likely to be able to fight off bugs (including Covid). Luckily I have blood test done every 8 to 12 weeks so it’s easy for me to see how they are doing. To me, it’s all useful information to help judge what activities are comfortable to do/not do.

[anon06]

I ask this reply to you & @BloodCancerUK @LauranBloodCancerUK , in terms of importance.

How significant are white cells and neutrophils compared to antibody test results?
If I was sceptical about my Antibody results, (not necessarily negative about them, but unsure and nervous) but my neutrophils and white cells were good, how confident should I be on a scale of 1-10?

[anon06]

@CaroleCW
My understanding
So for
Antibodies you get a number ?

For actual Spike variant antibodies you only get positive or negative?

Is the above correct ?

Final Questions

For the general antibody results does it come with a safe guide as to what is a safe range to have?
Or is this were you base judgement on white cells and neutrophils?

[CaroleCW]

No that’s not quite correct. For antibodies to the spike protein (the S test), you get two answers
A) whether you have spike protein antibodies - positive or negative (Ie Yes you have some or No you have none) AND
B) you get the number (Ie level) of spike protein antibodies
This is what the MonitorMyHealth Vaccine Immunity test gives you (the S test), this test is currently £42 on their website.

A separate test offered by then - the Covid 19 Antibody Test - the N test - currently £39 on their website - just tests for whether you have produced antibodies to Covid - positive or negative (this will only show positive if you have had Covid, it does NOT test for antibodies made to the vaccine jabs). I believe this is the test your GP may have done for you?

Your other question - no the S test does not give you a safe range ie there is no guide (from this test company or any other or any doctor) to tell you if your level of antibodies to the spike protein is a “safe” level (Ie to stop you being hospitalised with Covid). That is why others on here, and me, are saying you cannot expect the test to give you a guide to what a safe level is, no such guide exists.

I know my level is lower than my husband’s (who has “normal” immunity, he took the S test as well). On the website they will tell you what percentage of people fall into which ranges but that is NOT intended as a guide to safe levels and merely reflects that it’s likely to be people with poorer immune systems paying the money to take the test so personally I ignore those range results.

Please also be aware that while Monitor My Health give you a specific number for the antibodies response, other test providers may give you a range so it’s useful to look at their Frequently Asked Questions section so you are sure what the format of the response will be, how long it generally takes for them to process the test etc.

Wishing you all the best as you navigate your way through this to make your personal judgement on risk for you.

[anon06]

@CaroleCW
Is this the N test?
Values and Investigations (Latest Value)

|SARS-CoV2 IgG|
||Detected|
||SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibody DETECTED.|
||Degree of immunity to reinfection is unknown at the present|
||time so must not be assumed. Continue to use|
||appropriate infection prevention precautions.|

[CaroleCW]

Sorry but I am unable to give you an amateur answer on this , it looks like it probably is the N test for antibodies to Covid (rather than test for antibodies to the Spike protein) but not possible to know without knowing exactly what test was requested. I think you’ll need to ask your GP about this.

[anon06]

I asked for the Spike Protein antibody test associated with Covid, she knowingly asked for the wrong test or at least should of said “Sorry I can’t do that” or "I’ll do my best ", I would have saved time amd made furthet enquiries and NHS time would not have been wasted!

[CaroleCW]

Totally agree it’s a shame your GP wasn’t clear on it. As far as I know only a few NHS research hospitals involved in vaccine trials had access to the S-type test, otherwise people have had to pay privately for them. And lots of people (medics included) didn’t understand the difference between antibodies to Covid vs antibodies to the vaccine jab and that there were different tests for each. It’s been a learning curve for everyone I think.

[anon06]

you could probably understand how I feel, just hope other people see this and learn. Ask questions tape calls, put things in writing et etc @CaroleCW Thanks I wish you were my Dr.

[anon06]

@CaroleCW Are T cell tests available in this country on NHS or if not do you have to pay ££££££ for them privately, this was explained to me by someone at Blood Cancer uk on support line, but Ive forgot the exact reply?
And
If White cells and neutrophils fight off infection, what makes T cells different?

Which are more important to immune system, white cells or T Cells?

[anon06]

@CaroleCW
in reply to Please also be aware that while Monitor My Health give you a specific number for the antibodies response, other test providers may give you a range so it’s useful to look at their Frequently Asked Questions section so you are sure what the format of the response will be, how long it generally takes for them to process the test etc.” I dont really understand, do you mean that other companies differ in how they present results? Can you elaborate please?

[Iain]

May I, as I believe a relevant aside and as a simple man with a simple mind seek clarification regards Blood Tests through GP’S.

Having various comorbidities my bloods, like many here are often taken in addition to my Haemotology/Oncology checks. Both my GP’S sampling and that of Haemo go to the same Labs.

GP Diabetics check my FBC (RBC, WBC, Platelets), Cholesterols, Kidney function, Liver and of course Sugers. One form, red headed Combined Haemotology and Clinical Pathology does the lot.

My Haemotologist uses that same type of form but for seeking FBC+ diff, U&E, LFT, Bone Profile and C-reactives, however;

In addition there’s the second form, blue headed Immunology Lab. Here they seek solely the Immune element of the blood in depth ie Immunoglobulins, Paraproteins and Electrophoresis tests.

Two forms two specialalities, a Pathology Haemotologist and an Immunologists, who I assume has a better microscope .

So the point of my ramblings is:
a) Do GP’s rely heavily/solely on the ‘Red Form’ and its range of tests; or
b) can/do they also have access to the more speficic Immunology ‘Blue Form’ requests and if so,
c) are they their only access to Ig / antibody results in the NHS when a patient seeks data?

We patients could be asking a GP for data they cannot obtain or have access to. In my case as both parties use the same Universities Hospital Labs it’s one of the few common computer access links they both have.

Bloods next week, now where did I put that ‘Pee’ pot?

Keep safe folks

[CaroleCW]

Yes some test companies will not give you a precise number, instead they tell you within a range where your level falls eg you have over 800 but less than 2,500.

[CaroleCW]

I am not up to speed on the latest with T cell tests. I know that up to a year ago they were considered complex tests generally only done by labs in hospital settings and definitely not routinely done for everyone. Around a year ago a commercial fingerprick test was developed but I have no idea which companies offer it or how reliable the test is , what they are testing for exactly and whether they are worthwhile, but yes my understanding is those are private tests that you’d have to pay for.

Probably best to get one of the Blood Cancer U.K. helpline nurses to explain to you about White blood cells and all the different types of cells they produce and their function and any other questions on T cells. Neutrophils and lymphocytes are just two of the types of white blood cells. Lymphocytes then produce T cells which can kill virus cells directly, and B cells which produce antibodies to kill bacteria, viruses etc. they each have different functions and ways of working.

[Erica]

Thanks to @CaroleCW @anon06 @Iain @Fullofbeans all this definitely got far too technical for me ages ago and I expect for many of us.
I will copy this to the Blood Cancer UK nurse advisors for any comments they can add but once we get outside the NHS remit it might be difficult @BloodCancerUK_Nurses .

[CaroleCW]

I don’t know if GPs can request the more specialised blood tests that hospital consultants can but I suspect not (if a specialist requests them, I would anticipate that they should then discuss the findings with the patient rather than the GP). My consultants also told me that blood taken in the hospital is generally more accurate (as blood starts to degrade the longer there is between the time it’s taken and the time it is processed in the lab, GP surgeries only get their samples collected several times a day and then travel time to the hospital lab - not an issue for general blood tests but time lag can be relevant for some specialised tests), and certain blood tests have to be done under specialised conditions so they can only be done in a hospital not a GP surgery .

Unfortunately my GP and specialists are in 2 different hospital trusts and they can’t see or access the information online in the “other’s” system so information is passed via snail mail in consultant’s letters. Sometimes if my GP asks me for a blood test which I know my consultant has done recently at the hospital, I just download my results and email them to him, to avoid duplication of effort for me and costs for the NHS in getting a blood test done twice by different trusts. Hopefully the NHS systems will join up sometime soon!

And certainly agree that NHS doctors don’t have direct access to data held in private health systems , again the private consultant usually writes it up in a letter and sends it to the GP/consultant, where applicable.

[Iain]

Thanks CaroleCW,
You appear to be of a similar mind to myself. As I’ve posted before intergrated holostic communications in the NHS are not just poor but a risk. The patient often knows more than the GP and especially around their personal communications with varying specialists.

Another twist of course with regard timely tests is if I went 'privately ’ to say a Nuffield I could easily see the same Doctor as the local NHS Infirmary but with the tests being done at a totally different Lab, miles away with different procedure, controls and potentially differing results.

IMO Private doesnt mean better. The pro’s and con’s are personal and subjective but the medical knowledge and expertise are the same but on a higher salary.

Now, I’ve found my pee pot and off for bloods and diabetics tomorrow. Urology next week, Dermatology next month along with Haemotologist. I know the only common health communication thread is Meeee!

Keep taking the meds

[GemmaBloodCancerUK]

Dear @anon06

Unfortunately we cannot give you a number in relation to confidence in your individual circumstances. Both are important in managing viral and bacterial infections.

Antibodies are a blood protein produced in response to a specific antigen.
White Blood Cells are made in the bone marrow and found in the blood and lymph tissue. White blood cells are part of the body’s immune system and they help the body fight infection and other diseases.

I believe we have sent through these pages (Covid vaccine efficacy and blood cancer | Blood Cancer UK) before but I feel they are important in understanding risk.

Understanding how immunity and protection from covid works

Both antibodies and T cells play important roles in your body to protect you from infections including covid. Our research findings so far suggest that:

• high antibody levels can prevent you from being INFECTED with covid
• T-cell activity can REDUCE THE SEVERITY of covid if you do get it.

This means that having low antibody levels does not necessarily mean you have poor protection against covid, as your T cells could still protect you from severe covid.

The chart above shows how this works. A higher level of antibodies means a lower risk of infection. But a higher level of T cells means a lower risk of severe covid if you do catch it.

We also know that while antibodies resulting from vaccination only recognize very specific targets (eg the spike protein), T cells can recognize a wider variety of targets, and may be more important in protecting against different variants of covid.

In many types of blood cancer, where people fail to produce antibodies after vaccination, they are still able to get a T cell response, even during immunosuppressive cancer treatment. In terms of protecting someone from covid, the T cell response may be more important, as it stops someone getting seriously ill with covid if they catch it.

Understanding immunity in this way could also hold value beyond covid, when we think about other vaccinations and infections in people with blood cancer.

I appreciate that not having total reassurance is frustrating and concerning for you. Having evidence that relays that you have antibodies to COVID and a normal white blood count is important in managing exposure to the virus.

Happy to talk this through further if needed.
Take care
Gemma

[anon06]

Thanks for your replies @CaroleCW and @Iain I don’t understand Ian but assume you mean well as always. In my example she could of said “yes I can” or “no I cant get you info” in ither case time would not be wasted by myself waiting for data (yes data not result which was not sufficient) that was NOT what I wanted. Time wasted by NHS, an actual nurse was booked to visit a home, this could of been avoided with one simple phone call, one that I would not have liked but of course would of accepted as fact, they don’t do the test I asked for
Sorry to digress…
In the past this Gp has described me as a "drain on medical services " by asking for home visits? Every other medical person, who knows me who and my medical history I know disagrees with her.
What has she just done to the NHS?!

In life there is good and bad gp’s, I’ll be polite and say she is not one of the good ones